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Monday, January 23, 2006

Comments

Ninomojo

Supposing that Nintendo will end up #3 in the nextgen race means supposing they will fail to appeal to non-gamers, people at the moment don't care about consoles and video gaming.

Scott, do you think they will fail at this ?

Nino

Scott Miller

Ninomojo, Nintendo ended up #3 in the current generation with their Gamecube -- so does that mean they failed to appeal to non-gamers? Or, maybe, they generally only appealed to a particular segment of the market, perhaps the younger segment.

And while Nintendo still made money this ending cycle, perhaps they may have made more money by not having the Gamecube, and instead releasing their games on Sony's and MSoft's system, which would have likely resulted in FAR more overall sold units, due to the greater penetration of those other two systems.

This is all speculation, but there are many ways to slice this up, and it's really hard to know which strategy results in greater financial success for Nintendo. All I'm saying is that if Nintendo comes in 3rd place again, then they might come to the conclusion that--even though the Revolution is profitable--they can make more money as a software-only company. Although, they can still dominate the hand-held market. In fact, I'd suggest that that's where they really should put all of their hardware focus, to ensure that Sony and others do not bump them out of that market, too.

Questworld

First Epic, then ID, now 3DRealms. Kinda feels like the Revolution is being shunned by exactly the developers I thought would bring quality FPS games on it. I wonder if Valve will be willing to port over a Half-Life 2 + expansion package to the Rev. I also hope Ubisoft's game turns out great 'cause I'd hate to see another the system receive only mediocre FPS titles like those on the Cube.

Ben

I agree Questworld, unfortunately it looks like 3DRealms have their collective mind made up about the Revolution already. It's quite a shame that they prefer speculating about it in a negative and cliched way, rather than keeping an open mind and actually thinking about the posibilities, and perhaps trying a little harder to get informed.

It's obviously just crazy talk, but I swear it almost seems like Western FPS Developers are forced to give Nintendo the cold shoulder.

Charles E. Hardwidge

If this is the top of Scott's game, he is no master game developer, just another clown playing big fish in a small pond. These are harsh words and I don't expect him to like them, but if I don't beat him with a stick, the market is going to beat him harder.

The game industry needs a heroes who will use their power and influence to transcend negativity and cliché. If Scott can't go back to his books and see the truths they are telling him, he isn't worthy of attention. I will turn my back and not look back.

The world's changing. Get with the programme.

Halebard

Nintendo would make more money if they bring their games to the other consoles? Please scott... everybody knows sony and ms only sold so many consoles because they really fit for piracy. Nintendo sold every game that was played not like sony or ms... that´s why they made such money...

Ben

Mario selling more on Xbox than he does on a Nintendo system? Yeah, right, sure, ok, whatever. I mean heck, anything goes with the lone exception of Nintendo right?

Get real.

Bobby Dale

First off, I'm new here.
With that being said, I have most of the comments here. And after my reading I have two main issues with a lot of people:

#1. It seems as if a lot of you are thinking that the Revolution will either be a hit or miss soley on FPS games. And that blows my mind. I love FPS games. Love them. I'll play an FPS until the skin on my thumbs start cracking or until my clicking finger grows tired. But, as fun as they are, they are not THAT great.

Look at the early FPS games (Wolfenstein, DOOM) and look at the new generation FPS (Prey, Black). Sure, graphically a lot has changed. But gameplay wise, not much. All that is different now is more events going on in real time, more guns, more enemies (most with crappy A.I. still), and not much more. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with minimal change.

BUT! Some of you are praising FPS games like they define gaming in general. Personally, I believe that some FPS games are the most overrated games in gaming history. My prime example: Halo and Halo 2. They're good games. Fun as hell. But they are no where near as great as the media, the fanboys, Bungie, Microsoft, Billy Gates, or anyone else makes them out to be. Its a bit ridiculous in my eyes.

Back to topic: The Revolution will do well or it won't. We really knowing nothing that can tell us either way. But, its really odd to hear and read some of you hype up the controller as the divine FPS controller. Many people who have used the contoller, haven't played REAL games with it. They have played old school games or a broken up Metroid Prime demo/prototype. So what the controller does, how it functions, and etc is still up in the air.
---
#2 Nintendo is a kiddy system. And I'm not saying that in a bad way. What is wrong with being the kiddy system?

Nintendo introduces video games to the new generation. The parents of the new wave generation (N.W.G.) have played Nintendo. They have played the NES, GB, and SNES. They have played the Mega Man games, the Marios, the Zeldas, and so on. They (the parents) know that by buying a Nintendo system, they won't have to worry about the GTAs, the 'undergound' games, the Halos, the Conkers, etc. And Nintendo knows that they know that. So why change whats working? Why should Nintendo build new characters named "Yuri and Ola" who are Russian agents out to destroy the last remaining Alien city "Dufus" (which happens to be in downtown New York City) with nukes, SMGs, grenades, and etc?

They shouldn't and won't. Its not like Nintendo is hurting right now or anything. Odds are in this next "console war", they won't hurt either.

And by the way, this all comes from anti-Nintendo guy. So, don't say I'm bias or anything of the sort.

P.S. Sorry for the grammar and spelling errors. I'm sure there are tons of mistakes, but I don't proof read ands its late, and I'm tired. :)

Charles E. Hardwidge

I've just been beating my MP over his head about Chris Huhne, a candidate from leadership of the Liberal Democrat party. Here's an extract:

"If a political candidate wants my interest, he needs more than slogans and handshakes. I want to know what the mans strategies and capacities are, what potential he has, and whether he's likely to succeed. I want to take a deep look at his track record, hear what the best qualified opinion has to say, and hear the mood of the public.

He's young, he's fresh, he's suffering from ingrained habit patterns like the rest of Parliament. He's strong on negatives and weak on positives. We know what he doesn't like, but don't know what he really likes. He's being negative and cliché. If this man wants to be a leader of some caliber, he's going to have to raise his game."

Politics, like games, is all about branding and positioning. Forget ideas, creativity, and passion. They went through the blender years ago. There's nothing wrong with them as technologies but without wisdom they're as next to useless as anything else. Here, we see that branding and positioning falls apart when quality is an issue. I think, it's a matter of character. A whole generation of game developers and politicians have lost it. Accepting this and taking a little pain will help them improve. Not doing it only proves they're in it for the power, status, and wealth, and that they have no spine. This is useless.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4678210.stm

It's not entirely true, but most people don't fundamentally change until they've had a shock. As much as Scott's tripped and looked out of touch and unable to deliver over the past week, he's not an ignorant or stupid man, and has some admirable achievements under his belt. What I'd really like to know is whether his considered reflection has energised him to do better in the future than he might've thought possible at the beginning of the week and if so, what this improvement might be.

Ben

That was a good post Charles, however, I'm sort of doubting that Scott is actually seeing any reflections with that Great Wall of Cliches blocking his vision.

He'll have to take a peak over that gigantic monument of delusion to get a good look at how things really are on the other side and how they could be if he jumped over.

Anon

In order to do well, Nintendo will have to carve out a niche for the Revolution as THE console to play with your friends/family. It's a social console. That seems like what they were trying to do in the trailer for the controller. If they make fantastically fun games, if the controller is perfect, if the console is cheap, and if they do an incredible job marketing it, I think they could blow the game industry up. But it's a big risk. Granted, I say all that without knowing much about marketing or positioning or IP, or even reading most of the posts on this page, but those are my two cents. And with THAT said, I really want the revolution to succeed. That controller could be really, really cool. The console that's the size of three DVD cases? That's cool. I'm crossing my fingers, but it's a longshot.

Charles E. Hardwidge

He'll have to take a peak over that gigantic monument of delusion to get a good look at how things really are on the other side and how they could be if he jumped over.

We all face challenges like this. I can't see myself agreeing on some things Scott says this side of Hades, but he's cut me some slack in the past. It would be polite to offer him the same courtesy. Let's wait and see what the man has to say.

Ninomojo

Ninomojo, Nintendo ended up #3 in the current generation with their Gamecube -- so does that mean they failed to appeal to non-gamers? .

Well, I don't think they pushed the Gamecube to the non-gamers. At least not as much as they did for the DS and will for the Revolution, since it seems to be their new policy. I think they tried to push the Gamecube as a direct competitor to the PS2 and Xbox, and that's probably why they "failed" (for those who see this as a failure). A mistake they obviously don't want to repeat. As some people mentioned, Nintendo went through a major rethinking of their marketing 2 years ago and the first machine to benefit from it was the DS.

Or, maybe, they generally only appealed to a particular segment of the market, perhaps the younger segment
I guess this could be true. Or at least it is in the general perception we have.

Ninomojo

What I mean is: My mother which is the best caricature of a non-gamer you can dream of, never heard of the Gamecube. Maybe Nintendo have a strong intention to make her her of the Revolution ? (her and other demographics as well).

I'm just making suppositions here. But I find the overall discussion interesting :)

cleric

alot of you seem to take everything Scott says way out of proportion, just wait for Nintendo to release their system and judge it from there, to see if it measures up. if it does, most developers will support it, if it manages to live up to its hype.

And enough about the dumb nintendo controller, i for one don't want to look like some spastic retard using it, like the marketing scheme seems to play it out to be, maybe it will be awesome, maybe it won't, only time will tell.

i'm more interested if Duke Nukem Forever will be supporting my Logitech G15 with some cool features, LCD wise. any word on that Scott?

Scott Miller

Cleric, can't give you an answer regarding DNF, but I think we supporting it with Prey. Generally we do not go out of our way to support these side devices (like 3D glasses, the SpaceBall, vibrating mouse, etc.) because they end up being a total waste of our time to do so. But I think it was pretty easy to do with the LCD, plus we're getting some marketing out of it in return.

As for the Revolution, we'll just have to wait and see. I wish that system the best, and hope that Nintendo makes a viable, can't ignore platform for our future games.

Charles E. Hardwidge

Truth and integrity matter as much in games development as much as it does in politics and war. Some people find this demanding, and they attack you or disappear behind a wall of fog. Fear and greed are powerful marketing tools, but poor masters. This is why, I think, your branding and positioning tools are useful, but no replacement for quality. I've waited a long time to get a grip on this argument, and this topic has been a useful opportunity to do that. Perhaps, you will consider this and reform your thinking in time.

I wish you well, Scott. Goodbye. :)

Gavan Woolery

It is kind of ridiculous to me that all of these people are getting so heated over their preferred console (generally, the Nintendo Revolution here). The truth is that all of these upcoming consoles will be more or less equal in terms of what you can play on them. True, the Revolution will have a new type of input device, but I seriously think most of the games will be very similar at their core (i.e. you swing a sword by moving your arm, vs. pressing a button). The only thing that will really set these consoles apart is the games they support. Taking this into account, Scott is right to predict that the Revolution will probably come in third…I just don’t see a strong enough following by developers, regardless of how cool Nintendo’s new input device is. In my opinion, console makers are shooting themselves in the foot by not collaborating more. They should have ONE development platform that adapts to the unique underlying hardware of each respective console (Multithreading could be used to adapt to the number of processors on any given console). This way developers could make games for every system without much porting difficulty. People are talking about the death of PC games, and this is extremely ridiculous to me for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike consoles, PCs are ubiquitous (people need them for things other than playing games like surfing the internet, reading email, writing papers, etc). Secondly, PCs can typically run anything their OS supports, which usually means better backwards compatibility. Thirdly, there is nothing a console can do that a P.C. can’t do better. The only issues are cost and ease of use. Consoles can cut costs because of mass, internal development. The ease of use problem could easily be solved by making a new operating system for PCs specifically for games (which could be dual-booted with say, Windows). A game-centric OS could also boost performance on PCs (since the O.S wouldn’t need to worry about many background processes). I think the real future lies in moving the PC into the living room, and making it easier to use (although with the less tech-savvy generations passing on, ease of use might not be an issue anymore). Admittedly, current attempts at this have not been very good (i.e. Windows Media Center Edition). Anyway, that’s my rant.

Scott Miller

I'd love to test the Nintedo first hand, but we don't have one! But then, we still don't have an Xbox 360 to test Prey. Crazy!

Robert Howarth

If Venom is doing the port job do you really need one?

Kristian Joensen

Yes, because 3D Realms is given Human Head input on the game. Without a Xbox 360 development kit they can't give input specific to the Xbox 360 version.

Also how are they supposed to approve the Xbox 360 version gold without a development kit ?

With Prey both 3D Realms AND 2K Games/Take Two(and Humman Head obviously) have to approve it gold

Stewart Quade

Mr. Miller, I'm wondering if some of the mistakes in your comments are being done on purpose. The first one "Wind Walking", is excusable as I don't expect you to prefer the game. (Psst by the way it's Wind Waker). But then I saw the mispelling of Nintendo in your latest comment.

The majority of the comments to this blog post were posts dedicated to feedback about your thoughts on Revolution. But it's hard not to laugh when you became esstatic when you mentioned you were recieving a 360 dev kit, based off of the response to this blog post. Even though most of the comments have nothing to do with 360. Now you STILL haven't received that dev kit?

Are you genuinely excited about the Revolution? Or are you just pulling our legs to get more attention?(i.e. maybe a 360 dev kit will arrive there more quickly)

Even though I just checked the site and the web server seems to be currently down. www.warioware.com You could order a Revolution dev kit from there. If you are actually being serious about what you are saying.

Teut Weidemann

Many comments are due to the single sentence of George that if Nintendo fails again it would be their last console.

First: who said Nintendo failed with their GC? Look at their Software Sales. As they are on par worldwide with XBox, and the only one competing far ahead is Sony, did they fail? I don't think so. If we think everyone failed if they don't match the 100 Million PS2 consoles out there then everyone failed in the last 15 years. In the past it was a huge success, world cominating with 30 million consoles out there (SNES, N64). Now its higher, but companies make still valid amount of money with that number of consoles out there.

Second: Nintendo. Remember they are a japanese company. They don't think in short sighted western terms to satisfy the stock market. They have patience. If they can't beat Sony this 5 year cycle they will the next, or even in 10 years time. They can wait. Fact: Nintendo has so much cash on their bank that this alone pays all their fixed costs. Nintendo could stop selling a single piece of software and hardware and still live for a very long time. So they have the power to be patient. They can afford it.

Third: most innovations for the console market came from Nintendo. Yep, D-pad, Analog Stick, Shoulder buttons, Rumble pack etc etc. Some they did miss (online, even sony misses it this time, power to 360!). Now they changed the controller, totally. Imagine all three new consoles demo stations sitting next to each other in your favourite store. People play on them. What do you think will attract the crowds most? Yep, Nintendo. Watch and see :)

Stewart Quade

Just heard that the Revolution dev kits are $2000 a unit. Screw this. If some guy from a big company can't even take the risk of getting a $2000 dev kit, I might as well scrounge up the change, look for some guys that are interested and make a Revolution game ourselves.

JM

>The truth is that all of these upcoming consoles will be more or
>less equal in terms of what you can play on them. True, the
>Revolution will have a new type of input device, but I seriously
>think most of the games will be very similar at their core (i.e.
>you swing a sword by moving your arm, vs. pressing a button).

No offense, but this statement demonstrates an ignorance of game design. Change the interface and you fundamentally change what kinds of games are possible. Look no further than the DS and it's success with games like Nintendogs. Completely impossible to appeal the way this game does (tactile connection to the pet) on a PSP or any other gamepad interface.

I don't see a lot of Nintendo fans here. Just a lot of people expressing surprise at this collection of seeming inconsistencies:
- Revolution controller is the first console interface to have the *potential* to rival the mouse for FPS control
- Scott Miller is running one of the world's leading FPS companies (or if you disagree with that, certainly a very high profile one)
- With 3DRealms profile, I've no doubt that could acquire a devkit from Nintendo merely for the asking (if not in private, then make a public challenge in the press: "put up or shut up!")

Given this combination of facts it seems almost willfully negligent for Mr. Miller to mouth off about what the Revolution may or may not mean, when he could so easily find out *and* has a strong vested interest in finding out!

Heavens, if I were a cynic I'd almost suspect some sort of cozy arrangement between Microsoft and 3DRealms - maybe a handshake agreement not to say anything publically that might undermine the XBox 360? But then, I'm a gentleman not a cynic, so I'd never suggest any such thing.

Scott Miller

-- "...if I were a cynic I'd almost suspect some sort of cozy arrangement between Microsoft and 3DRealms..."

It's not as cosy as I'd hope. We are still desperately in need of a dev kit from MSoft to test Prey. We could begin testing Duke on a dev kit too, but alas...

And an Xbox magazine just came out rating Prey as the #4 game to look forward to this year (#1 was Halo 3, #2 was Oblivion, #3 I forgot). Bottom-line, it can't come out if we don't get a kit to being play-testing it.

JM

That seems strange to me Scott. I work for a gamedev that is decent, but not with the 3DRealms pedigree, and we've had no trouble getting 360 and PS3 devkits. Now we do a have a great relationship with our publisher and they actually acquired the kits, so maybe that's the difference ... but at the same time it's not like we're working with one of the top moneymaking publishers either.

Do you guys have a publisher for Prey yet? Surely they would have the ability to get a devkit, and enough incentive to get it to you!

C

i think x360 will gain groung but they have no place to go but up. when 2006 is done, i think ps3 will still have a very sizeable lead on MSFT. even though x360 released early, i know many people that are just waiting it out for ps3. this situation reminds me of a last second inbounds play in basketball.

team A (sony) goes out on the floor to set up. they see how team B (microsoft) will setup their defense. B shows their hand and then A calls a time out to adjust.

MSFT already made one mistake not making X backwards compatible. anxious to see what blunders Sony makes.

Stewart Quade

Wanted to quickly correct a previous post. Dev kits can be ordered via http://www.warioworld.com/

Robert Howarth

I'm pretty sure you need to buy them. They don't hand them out like candy. :)

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